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--- en:other:ekdosistraino:traino_mesogios [2025/02/03 12:49] – no_name12
+++ en:other:ekdosistraino:traino_mesogios [2025/04/20 19:33] (current) – external edit 127.0.0.1
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-====== Mediterranean: the remainder is Cyprus (Transcripted Presentation and Discussion) ======
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 This translation was created for the purposes of archiving and does not originate from the original creators of the text.
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+====== Mediterranean: the remainder is Cyprus (Transcripted Presentation and Discussion) ======
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 If Varosha opens, it'll be the first city since '74 where we can meet properly. But in the last six months there's been much more contact than before.
-I should also note that there is an increased desire of rapproachment by professional associations: doctors, lawyers, engineers, architects. Such parts of the elites on both sides are in frequent contact. We are in contact mainly with the group that publishes the magazine 'Eleftheria' [Özgürlük] in northern Cyprus, who are moving in the leftist space, and with the anarchistic poet Neşe. The students in England, who live together, are also a field of contact.
+I should also note that there is an increased desire of rapprochement by professional associations: doctors, lawyers, engineers, architects. Such parts of the elites on both sides are in frequent contact. We are in contact mainly with the group that publishes the magazine 'Eleftheria' [Özgürlük] in northern Cyprus, who are moving in the leftist space, and with the anarchistic poet Neşe. The students in England, who live together, are also a field of contact.
 Q: Can you tell us more about this research centre?
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 AP: First of all, the nationalism of the Cypriot elite does not necessarily stem from its economic interests. Cyprus is the remnant of a division between Greek and Turkish nationalism. Under logical circumstances, all the conditions for the creation of a nation-state existed in Cyprus. It is good that it was not created. But in Cyprus several things were anchored: a triple colonialism, two national visions. At the same time, an endogenous, inter-communal workers' movement was created. Eventually we were led to a schizophrenia, which we as a group tried to analyse.
-Nationalism dragged down the two elites, who normally would be said to have different interests. And indeed there are wings in both elites that insist that the Cyprus problem be solved. But nationalism has served them as a way of eliminating each other. Nationalism also serves to create slaves. I said it from the beginning: nationalism is not just an ideology of the elite for us. It is the ideology of the slave. As soon as you join this imaginary family of the nation, as soon as you submit to the imaginary father-state, as soon as you accept that the oppressor is your brother, and the neighbour becomes your enemy, well, then the bourgeoisie of both societies in Cyprus has a great interest in maintaining and extending these conditions, no matter if sometimes there are consequences for its own interests from other sides. Ultimately bot the Greek Cypriot and the Turkish Cypriot bourgeoisie have much to fear from the strata that now support them, if these people are disengaged from the national discourses. Because underneath the nationalism many accept to suspend rights because of "national threats" etc.
+Nationalism dragged down the two elites, who normally would be said to have different interests. And indeed there are wings in both elites that insist that the Cyprus problem be solved. But nationalism has served them as a way of eliminating each other. Nationalism also serves to create slaves. I said it from the beginning: nationalism is not just an ideology of the elite for us. It is the ideology of the slave. As soon as you join this imaginary family of the nation, as soon as you submit to the imaginary father-state, as soon as you accept that the oppressor is your brother, and the neighbour becomes your enemy, well, then the bourgeoisie of both societies in Cyprus has a great interest in maintaining and extending these conditions, no matter if sometimes there are consequences for its own interests from other sides. Ultimately bot the Greek Cypriot and the Turkish Cypriot bourgeoisie have much to fear from the strata that now support them, if these people are disengaged from the national discourses. Because underneath the nationalism many accept to suspend rights because of "national threats" etc. So nationalism is not only economically useful, in a narrow sense. It functions and serves in a more complex way, creating subordination. And the hatred shown towards the Cypro-centric discourse even by those parts of the elites who are in favour of rapprochement with each other is typical. It is an unquenchable hatred: not to hear the words "I am a plain Cypriot". At the moment, Cypriot consciousness is experienced as something strongly questioning the way power is structured in Cyprus. Because it accepts that we can all live together, but not on the basis of religion or language, and not, on the other hand, on the basis of a partnership, an anonymous company. It is a pluralist model. As for cosmopolitanism: I personally am a cosmopolitan, that is to say, I consider myself a citizen of the world. But I understand that you mean something different with the cosmopolitanism of the bourgeoisie.
+It is difficult to provide you with an answer. On the one hand, the unification of the planet is something that generations of revolutionaries have dreamed of, will capitalism achieve it? I don't know. On the other hand, again, this cosmopolitanism levels out - indigenises, as we say - the local cultures through which the world finds meaning. This leveling creates nationalisms that benefit local elites. We must confront this cosmopolitanism with other cultural identities, local, geographical, but pluralistic. In other words, in the face of the leveling out of Anglo-Saxon culture, we must contrast, for example, the Eastern Mediterranean, a pluralistic culture. A vision of a multifaceted world.
+Q: How do the youth in Cyprus react (if they react) to nationalism?
+AP: Youth has changed radically, compared to the not too distant past. I must tell you first of all that until '74 the schools and the educational system in general were a colony of the Greek and Turkish ministries of education. Just as the English had set them up a century before when they had come to Cyprus. Just to get an idea, when I went to school we didn't learn Cypriot history. We were forbidden to speak Cypriot [Greek] at school. We did not have a map of Cyprus either. We had some maps of Greece, which had a box on the edge with Cyprus in it... It's an interesting visual symbol, these maps, because they annihilate distances. You get the impression that Cyprus is a little bit above Rhodes!!!
-Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
+Anyway. After '74, because of the intense pro-independence atmosphere, they decided to at least keep up appearances: they made maps of Cyprus where you can see the island in its normal position, they put a Cypriot history lesson in schools. But, basically, they continue the same fairytale: we are descended from the first Greek settlers who... came in 600 BC - try to figure it out... But come on, Cyprus has a history of 8000 years, since there was an indigenous civilization before the Phoenicians and the Greeks - forget it, let it go...
+With all this, society has developed what I think is an amazing immune system against national discourse. And the youth are the most indifferent: they don't care, one way or the other. This youth is the first postmodern generation in Cyprus, who, when they come across the "news" about the occupation, the Cyprus problem, etc., shrug their shoulders and moves on. In essence, behind it the youth still carries the ideological baggage of their family. There is the left-wing youth who oppose nationalism, there is the right-wing youth who think that the Greek flag is the moment of the ultimate orgasm, and there are some currents of rock culture.
+In general, however, there is a postmodern attitude. For example, a few months ago they wanted to hold a rally for Macedonia in Nicosia. So they went to the young people in the schools and said to them, "You're going to the rally, aren't you?" We'll miss class..." So they gathered 15,000 students from all the towns and villages of Cyprus, and sent them by bus to Nicosia. The next day all the newspapers wrote "scandal". Why? Because out of these 15000, 2000 came back. The others went to the rally, and then took to the streets and walked around Nicosia. Where is the scandal? Why should they care about the "national cause"? They wanted to go for a walk. They went to the rally to do their duty, and then they took to the streets.
+The bad thing is that when these young people see the parties converging on something, they say "that's fine, let's do it" - as happened with the Macedonian rallies. In other words, although they have an indifference to the "national problem" in substance, they can take part, in the end, in a nationalist frenzy, which for them is not a nationalist frenzy, of course, it is something like a duty. A youth consciously kept in a state of childishness is easily led here or there, without much understanding of what they are doing, and perhaps without much concern for understanding. I hope that at some point they will find a more conscious path.
+{{tag>
+Condition:"Needs Translation":"Needs Turkish Translation"
+Condition:"Needs Translation":"Unclear Archiving"
+Groups:"Train in the City (Group)"
+"Decade":"Decade 1990-1999"
+"Year:1994"
+"Other Material"
+Areas:Thessaloniki}}